[AlternC-dev] trying to temper the ruby choice ...

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Nahuel ANGELINETTI nahuel at altnetvision.info
Mar 21 Aou 18:31:00 CEST 2007


I'll try to answer with a good english, and to expose my personal

Le Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:35:30 +0200,
Benjamin Sonntag <benjamin at alternc.org> a écrit :

> Hi all,
> (When I say "AlternC" as an "organization" (even if there is currently
> no formal NGO or other legal entity), I mean all the guys who have a
> write access to the svn and who committed something since about the
> last two years.)
>     [ Why is this mail in english ]
> Daniel, a new metaconsult developper, will participate in AlternC for
> the next months, I will now use (quite) only english for my mails in
> dev at alternc.org. (as Daniel don't speak french).

And I think it's better to allow more international people to
participate to the development, specialy for the v2

>     [ AlternC V2 ]
> As I look at the Ruby & Rails learning curve (quite hard) I wonder if
> it's a so good idea to use Ruby & Rails for AlternC v2.0.
> We may use a PHP-based MVC Framework to do the same organised and
> modularized stuff ...

The choice of RoR has been made because puppet was in ruby, but now
puppet seems to not be used for the v2.0, because the performances are
bad with too much modifications.

> As we are more experts in php development, it may allow us to gain a
> lot of time on the v2.0.

But php have another inconvenients as ruby, like the lot of
modifications between php4 and php5, or php5 and php6.

> So we (Metaconsult) just started to think on a v2.0 that may be
> written in php ... using a php framework
> We didn't started to develop anything yet, but really want to discuss
> this issue on this list ...
> Do we want to produce a v2.0 as soon as possible ?

I don't think the use of a framework is good, it suppose that we must
undergo the framework security alerts or bugs.
But develop our framework can be bad too, because we can create some
bugs ;)

> It looks like some of the php frameworks available out there are
> really good to implement quite clean MVC dev.
> * Quick framework comparison (the frameworks in this list are known to
> be the best php frameworks in php)
> http://www.phpit.net/demo/framework%20comparison/chart.php
> There may be some problem : if we use ruby, we may use it to handle
> configuration files management and server-side treatments.
> PHP will certainly not be the perfect language for this (shell
> scripts | ruby scripts | php scripts | perl scripts may by use for
> system administration scripts, but they are not equivalents ...) But
> it is still possible with php.

Well, at the beginning of the v2 we talked about a daemon that php
application should talk with (through a socket?). Not needed to have so
much languages. Only 2 different languages could be used, like python
and php, ruby and php, or perl and php.
Then we have to develop the servers communications, and a new
protocol... perhaps too much work.

> If you think about it, yes, it means that puppet will certainly not be
> used for this v2.0, but I also talked on puppet at the CCC Camp and
> the guy who use it for years in a German university told me that
> puppet learning curve is also huge, and that the developers don't
> want it to get to far away from a certain point of view, which will
> undoubtedly be problematic for AlternC (we are not maintaining many
> servers, but one (or up to ten) machines with many services ...)

And perhaps after, some people will use it with a lot of servers, like
big hosters.

>     [ Conclusion ]
> (regarding Daniel work)
> If we go and do the v2.0 in PHP, Daniel will work on AlternC v2.0 most
> of its time (at least 50% monthly), depending on the work he had on
> Metaconsult, collaborating with other developers to obtain a v2.0
> quickly. He will just follow the guidelines we give him. AlternC as an
> organization may also help financially its work to make it go faster
> (Daniel will, in this case, be 100% dedicated to the project) : in
> that case we may discuss this point in IRC since most of the
> informations out there may be confidential (how, how much, why & so
> on...)

As my memories, we have not a lot of money... don't think it will be
sufficient to allow to paye for 100% of dedicated time.

> (regarding AlternC's future)
> At the moment, I guess we should go to a v2.0 using php v5 and Mysql
> 5, with MVC development & using something like Zend Framework,
> creating a modularized web panel.

I think it should be a really good idea, but we have to make some plans
before... Perhaps as I said make our MVC internal framework, and do not
use another framework that can be introduce another problems we cannot
control. But we can reproduce the architecture of an existing framework
but more simple, with less memory and cpu usage.

How many time Daniel will work for metaconsult ?


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